@HyperCloxy said in #98:
> Firstly, I still do not get why there is such a huge discussion about keyboard being fair or not. I mean it does not make any sense to play competitive speed chess with different input methods and different connections. Now people will say that there is always a difference because some people have a better mouse / mousepad and others have a worse setup. But from my experience the difference between good and bad mouse is super small compared to the huge difference between keyboard and mouse. And with such a huge difference it does not make sense to play competitive in my view. It's like racing in formula 1 with a normal car. You can still win with a normal car but nobody will do it because you are not competitive. And that's why there are extra races for normal cars because driving normal cars requires a different skill than driving formula 1 car.
>
> So, if you want to make keyboard and mouse players happy you have to implement something like kb-only and mouse-only tournaments/matchmaking. But I am pretty sure this won't happen so you have to decide whether mouse players or keyboard players are more important for lichess speed chess.
>
> 1.Pro-kb solution is the current one.
> 2.Pro-mouse solution would be ban kb.
>
> Both are bad solutions in my view because a huge amount of players is excluded with one of the solutions. (1 forces mouse players to use kb to be competitive / 2 forces kb players to use mouse) Because there is huge community for both input methods I would really appreciate lichess to split ultrabullet/hyperbullet to no-kb/everything allowed.
>
> I am mouse player and there is only (!) one reason why I do not like keyboard and it is the fact that being very fast with mouse is not rewarding at all on lichess but it was a core part of being good in ultra/hyperbullet in the earlier days before kb grew up. It's just kinda sad that this skill got partly useless.
I agree on some parts and disagree on others.
I like the solution you propose. To combat
@MaximF42 s objection, I would use the following plan.
1. Implement keyboard into lichess, officially. I'm sure BerserkAsIfUWereMad and thibault could sort this out, considering the code pretty much exists already and must be merged with lichess. It's not a matter of 5 minutes, but its doable
2. Create seperate tournaments for mouse which you cannot join if you have keyboard enabled through lichess settings. This is also doable, most games have that, for example, you get entirely different lobbies in GTA Online, depending on free aim and assisted aim. I think they did it very smart, that way they avoid people using aimbots.
Now, you say that mouse speed is not important anymore with keyboard. I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. Every sport goes through development and changing and other qualities get more important than others. Here's a few examples:
- In swimming, there are different techniques. The most effective one is crawling. Of course, people who learned and mastered other techniques are at a disadvantage in freestyle swimming, but theres also seperate competitions.
- In ski jumping, people used to hold their ski parallel. Then it was discovered that bringing them into a V-shape enhances the jump. Of course, everyone using the parallel style was then at a disadvantage, but instead of whining about it, they learned the new style and were successful. For example, there's Noriaki Kasai, who is 49 years old and still active at world cup level. He mastered the new style, despite already being good at the old one.
- In soccer, people used to play with regular shoes. Now there's special soccer shoes which have more grip. That means that balancing skills and staying on your feet on wet ground is not so difficult anymore.
What I'm trying to say is that it's a development in ultrabullet chess, and I don't think it's a bad one. I don't think ultrabullet should be all about mousespeed, I think it should be about who can think faster, who can make smart premoves to surprise the opponent, who can play better chess after all. I think keyboard vs keyboard games are the ones that get the closest to this ideal. Of course, mouse vs keyboard doesnt fit there really, but I don't think thats the keyboarders fault.
It's like a breaststroke swimmer in freestyle complaining that another swimmer uses crawling.
